Leper Window, St Mary the Virgin
The contagion of lepers
has lifted.
The low glass, where they crouched
even lower,
remains, but their breath,
their rash, their lack
has passed into the lace
of shadows in the yard.
Where God looked
but did not touch,
the lip of sandstone
is purled with fissures.
Picture from the Scottish Book Trust website
The beautiful poem above won the Edwin Morgan prize this year that also saw, for the first time, an all-female shortlist.
But Jane McKie is not just a poet but also a publisher – setting up the playful and innovative Knucker Press to explore the relationship between poetry and visual image. Here, RosyB talks to Jane about poetry, art and publishing and why being in a crit group is still important – award-winner or not.
—-
RB: It is a unique, but quite niche idea for a small publisher. How did you get the idea initially and what is it that you want the reader to take away from these very individual collections of word and image? Is it a labour of love for you?
JM: Completely a labour of love. Love and not much else, certainly not money. Word/image pairing is something that you see more and more, happily something that seems to be on the up, along with small press publishing itself. I am resting production of the books for a while, but am still very interested in fostering and encouraging collaborations between artists and writers… we shall see.
RB: I’m intrigued on how some of the books you publish at Knucker Press are responses to images and some are artists responding to poems and some are collaborations that start simultaneously. A complicated question, but could you talk a little about the process of getting a good “body” of work (poems and art) together and how these projects tend to form? How do you decide how each should be tackled – do the participants come to you with the idea or do you have a writer or artist in mind you want to find a partner for? Do the artists and poets often know each other or do they respond to each other’s work more blind and without knowledge of the other person? (sorry a LOT of questions there!)
JM: The projects started coming together purely because of my love for illustrated words (and/or text to complement visual art). Most of the pamphlets I have published have been serendipitous — arising out of connections with people I know, being introduced to new people & sensing a collaboration, and sometimes being approached via the website. We (my friend Neil Christie and I) have worked in both directions: poems first, followed by the illustrations and vice versa. The order in which they happen doesn’t really matter as long as the source of the response is something that excites the responder (if you see what I mean — responder! What a terrible word). The more I have made, the more I have developed a sense of who might work well together. Sometimes I have been terribly selfish though, and snaffled a lovely artist and series of images for myself. I haven’t been able to resist — the urge to write a response was overwhelming.
How to Wire a Life for Love,poems by Liz Bassett, illustrations by Angelica Kroeger
RB: You are a poet and a very good one too! (You recently won the prestigious Edwin Morgan Prize) So does that mean that the writing and poetry comes first for you? Or do you also have a visual arts background of any kind? How do you personally respond to visual art?
published by Polygon, click to buy
JM: Thank you, that’s very kind. I hope I’m developing as a poet, certainly. The will is there to keep on improving and to push myself further. The writing and poetry does come first (in terms of a creative life, not in terms of other priorities like children & loved ones of course!), but I’ve always been drawn to visual media, especially painting, film, design and illustration. If I had a parallel life, I’d perhaps like to pursue a fine art or illustration course. I’m not sure I have what it takes though, beyond an excess of enthusiasm.
Head to Head
RB: I am very intrigued by a very interesting publication called Head to Head with Andrew C Ferguson and Caroline List. (I will attempt to describe it in some detail for readers here…) There definitely is the hint of the battle of the sexes – with one male poet and one female and with the back of the piece resembling a full pullout chessboard with tiny nuggets of poems (or flash fiction) describing the game of a meeting or courtship or date between two individuals. On the other side are poems that talk about the different pieces – I was particularly struck by King and the sense of regret and impossibility of going back in life to rethink or correct those first moves made rashly in youth…The whole piece is not just a “response” of one art form to the other but a whole considered design – creating a kind of fold-out object or map. I wondered if you could talk a little about this piece – how it came into being and some of the themes and thoughts behind it and how the three of you worked together on it.
Way Out by Victoria Rae
JM: Ah, this one was indeed one of the more planned pamphlets. Andy and I decided we wanted to write something together around the theme of chess, and I had just met Caroline who works with collage to produce quirky and striking figures, so she seemed the perfect person to illustrate it. We talked about the concept first, then possible layouts, and then we wrote the poems for her to respond to. A square — mirroring a chessboard — was the natural format and from that proceeded the design of a folded map-like pamphlet. Because of the nature of the game, chess tournaments in particular, we decided to write a male/female oppositional thing as well as trying to bring the iconic pieces to life. We really enjoyed making it, and I love Caroline’s illustrations. The only thing I kind of regret is the inability to afford a thinner more ‘fine’ paper — one of my perpetual regrets actually, as nice paper is such a gorgeous thing. But there is always a compromise to be made between the object you have in your mind and the object you are actually produce.
RB: I see you have worked a number of times with the illustrator Caroline List who has quite a spare, graphic, almost cut-out kind of illustrative style. What is it about her work that particularly represents your writing style and vice versa do you feel?
JM: I adore Caroline’s work http://www.collagecomposer.com/
When I first saw it, it summoned to mind the Eastern European animation I remember seeing as a kid. Very fairytale, but not familiar fairytale: bold, distinctive, and always original. A universe of strange creatures, sometimes composite, sometimes with objects nested within them, or playing with full stops or question marks or other punctuation. Very textural too! I guess it’s not so much that I feel her work chimes with my writing, more that it chimes with my heart. But perhaps that’s the same thing?
RB: In Booklight, we have photographs that act as jumping off point for a number of poets. Do you feel there is anything different about photography to illustration and the interaction with poetry?
JM: Not necessarily, I think any visual stimulus is a good place to start writing poetry. As a jumping off point, I think photography is only different to the extent that the individual photographer is different, that is, to the extent that any one artist differs from another.
RB: A general question about poetry - the Edwin Morgan shortlist was all women writers which is truly wonderful to hear for a change. Do you think women writers are finally getting more recognition for their achievements?
JM: I hope so, I don’t know really. The poems were anonymised so it shouldn’t have made a difference. In an ideal world, I would hope for equivalent attention to work, regardless of gender. The shortlist was notable though, and actually quite freaky in that two of the other shortlisted candidates are friends of mine, which was nice and made me feel less nervous when it came to it.
RB: What’s next for you and Knucker Press?
JM: For me, being a mum, writing, thinking about writing, teaching writing, and moving house! For Knucker, a hiatus and then a revival — I’d like to think a resurrection as a kind of non-romantic dating agency for artists and writers perhaps, shifting away from the product towards a greater emphasis on the process or event.
RB: I know you partly through a writers critting and performance group. Do you find it important as a writer to commune with other writers and how do you feel about performing your work? Is poetry best performed or best read quietly and in solitude – a private act?
JM: I would be lost without the commune 
Seriously, it gives me sustenance and reassures me that there are kindred spirits, and fellow obsessives, out there. Writing is a pretty solipsistic activity and it’s important to feel you’re not alone. The performance angle is slightly different, I fell into it by accident really; I’m not a natural performer, though I don’t mind reading poems at poetry events. Knowing people who are great performers drew me in; I tend to sit on the sidelines being slightly and happily singed like the proverbial moth, wishing I were a bit more ballsy.
RB: In Vulpes tradition we always ask for your five favourite books. These could also be your five favourite poems – could you tell us what they are and why?
JM: For a bibliophile, that’s a hellishly difficult ask! I think I’ll do it on the basis of books that have influenced me?
In that case, it’s got to be:
- Comet in Moominland, Tove Jansson — one of the first books I remember, read to me before I could read. Charming and profoundly beautiful.
- Something Wicked this Way Comes, Ray Bradbury — possibly my favourite Bradbury. I was in love with his prose when I was a teenager, poetry before I really got into poetry.
- Anything by Alan Garner — ditto.
- Cloudstreet, Tim Winton — sprawling, lightly fantastical, humane Australian family saga.
- For my fifth choice, I feel a fight ensuing between Mervyn Peake for the fabulous, descriptively dense & Machiavellian Gormenghast trilogy and George Mackay Brown for his Orkney myth-making (because I had to get poetry in there somewhere). Not a pretty sight, but I guess it gives a snapshot of my early influences. There are tons of contemporary poets who excel and whose work I love, too many to name, but I would like to get a shout in for David Troupes’s transcendental Parsimony and the forthcoming The Simple Men (both with Two Ravens). On the fiction side, my taste tends to be leaner these days, and I have developed a bit of a thing for thrillers, however the magical is never far from my thoughts.
RB: Ah Gormenghast – my favourite book! Thanks so much, Jane, and we’ll look forward to seeing what you and Knucker Press get up to in the future.
Links
To find out more about Jane and some of the books featured in this article please go to http://www.knuckerpress.com/
Jane is also part of Writers Bloc which you can check out here.
As someone who has tried her hand at poetry more times than it does her amour propre good to remember – and managed to produce very bad doggerel every single time, I found this fascinating reading. I think, however, that I have a visual imagination – I see something and I don’t think ‘There’s a poem to be had from that’ – I think, ‘That would make a fabulous pastel/charcoal and chalk/watercolour …’ – which is odd, because I love poetry and I love reading poetry, to myself and aloud.
Thank you both very much … (and a quick ‘Yay!’ for Something Wicked This Way Comes!)
A great interview and many congratulations to Jane on winning the Edwin Morgan Prize – what a brilliant achievement (and indeed a brilliant poem). Writing as “a pretty solipsistic activity” describes a feeling that I’ve had for a long time but not been able to articulate. I also like the idea of particular artwork chiming with the heart. What a lovely way of putting it. Good luck with all of your future endeavours, Jane, including the fascinating Knucker Press.
What a terrific post, it was almost mystical. I’m always intrigued by the matching of art & words, so was fascinated to learn more about it and from a different perspective. The chess book, especially, sounds really unique. Actually, all of the ones described made me want to see them in person(in book?). I’m impressed by the varying styles of art used in the books.
Thanks to Ms. McKie & Rosy for a really interesting interview!
Moira – I think Knucker’s work goes both ways – with the artist’s work as a starting point for the poet, and as the poetry as a stimulus for the artist. And sometimes a complete organic collaboration. So you thinking “oo – charcoal drawing” would fit into such an idea pretty well, I think.
For me, I would be more likely to get a poem from a painting than the other way round. And yet I do paint and am a visual person too. But i think I respond to visual stimuli with images – i.e. I respond to the visual world – to striking arrangements and images and visual ideas with paint and the nature of paint and it is a very unconscious kind of process. Whereas looking at a painting I can respond with words. I feel the two states are not totally connected the other way round. I can’t quite tell you where my head goes when I paint or draw, but it’s not the same thing as writing for me. Hmmm. I’d never thought about that before actually – how I can go one way: image to word, but less the other way: word to image. Although I have in the past. I feel that image is deeper though, perhaps. Writing is more conscious for me, particularly as I write comedy – which is quite a conscious kind of writing perhaps…
In fact, I feel quite inspired to experiment now. Hmmm. I think I will.
I loved the poem, and this is a great interview. Congratulations to Jane McKie on winning the Edwin Morgan prize, and I wish her great future success. Knucker Press has a wonderful idea in marrying word and image – creating beautiful objects.