I rushed to volunteer myself for a post this week as…well, I was supposed to do a post last week and then promptly forgot. Which is shameful. So here I am.
I am due to write a rather complicated and in-depth review of Bernard Schlink’s essays on Collective Guilt – which are marvellous things. However, I simply don’t have the brainpower this week, so, instead, I’ve come to this with some disconnected thoughts that I have no idea if I will manage to crowbar together. So, here goes. Fasten seatbelts and let’s hope this post grows into something vaguely coherent by the time I’m whizzing past the 1000 word mark.
I have been having my usual vague and incoherent thoughts recently – this time about children’s versus adults books.
This started when I returned to a couple of old favourites from my youth – Barbara Willard’s Mantlemass novels. If you are unfamiliar with Willard and Mantlemass – these are a series of books set in the forests of Suffolk, concerning the generations of two families –the Mallorys and the Medleys as they try to eek their living from the land and how their quiet idyll is impacted by various dramatic events in English history. Willard won the Carnegie for one of them, The Iron Lily, and was one of the great children’s historical novelists of that time, alongside writers like Henry Treece and Rosemary Sutcliff. Unfortunately her books do not seem to have lasted as well and are less known today. I urge any teenager with a liking for history to check them out.

reprinted by Jane Nissan books
Rereading books from your childhood is always a dangerous thing. Will they stand up? Will they disappoint?
In the case of Willard, I set to thinking about something else. Written with patches of dense description and using the forest dialect of the area with which she was so familiar, what was it, I wondered, that made the Mantlemass books childrens’ rather than adults’ books? They were meaty, had great characters, chunks of history, used a language that is more sophisticated than many adult genre novels…And yet, I did come to the conclusion they were not adults’ books. But why?
Which brings me onto my second disparate strand (bear with me, I’m hoping that this will add up in the end). A pub conversation. Or more accurately a coffee and cake conversation.
“Which childrens’ books,” a writer friend of mine asked over her slice of lemon drizzle cake, “stay with you as an adult?”.
Interesting question. In her case, she outlined the ton-load of Enid Blytons she had read but, she admitted shame-facedly, a recent pub quizz with a special round on Blyton’s prodigious output had left her unable to answer a single question. She could not remember one title. And beyond a vague notion of a dog – she was unable to put names to the other members of the Famous Five.
I thought about this.
As a child I read a ton-load of animal books. You know the kind. Where an otter, a squirrel and a weasel all band together and decide to rebuild their society away from Evil Mankind. I blame Watership Down for the spate of these kind of books. Watership Down is a terrific book. And I still harbour a great fondness for Colin Dahn’s Animals of Farthing Wood (ridiculous though it is in so many ways). But, in addition to them, there were horse books and pet books galore. And I can’t pretend the majority of these were very good. But I loved them. I would head straight for that section in the bookshop and rummage around to my heart’s content. Do I – however – remember any of them now? It has to be admitted – err…no.
Now, I’m not going to argue that these books were not valuable. My own mother talks of devouring Blyton as a child and these fast-paced, easy-to-read, adventures are probably one of the reasons that my mother, myself and countless other early readers – learnt to read so well and read independently from teachers and parents. And I’m not going to argue that some of these books aren’t just plain brilliant either. You have different interests and obsessions as a child – without my pony books, who would I have had to chat to incessantly about ponies? (All members of my family shut up now!)
But why don’t they stay in the mind?
Interestingly, as the drizzle cake diminished before us – we realised that many of the children’s books that had stayed with us were, in fact, picture books. My friend mentioned “What-a-mess” by Frank Muir. (Remember that one?). Two of us enthused about The Church Mice books by Graham Oakley. (A fierce battle breaking out about whether, indeed, The Church Mice aren’t written just as much with adults in mind. But we don’t have time for that argument in this post.)
Of older childrens’ books – I can’t remember anything at all about Jill’s Gymkhana (devoured greedily at the time) but The Ogre Downstairs lives on in my mind.. All the Joyce Strangers that I adored and read back-to-back merge together and I can’t remember a single name of a character – But Watership Down will stay with me forever and I could tell you the whole story. Others that made an impression, apart from James and the Giant Peach and The Twits - Dogger, The Duchess Bakes a Cake, Winnie the Pooh and The Elephant and the Bad Baby – are all are written for the under 5s!
Thinking about it in the vague washing machine-like way that I sometimes do – I decided there is something extreme and anarchic about some kids picture books – a quality possessed of the great Dahl. A chaos, darkness, funniness, acceptance of the surreal, of the disgusting…that seems to disappear in many older kids and teenage books.
By the time you get on to being able to tackle Blyton’s Famous Five or Mallory Towers books – goodies are goodies and baddies are baddies. The moral order is pretty much set and unchallenged. There is no subversion and we pretty well know what way it’s going to play out from the moment the characters are introduced.
Take the first Harry Potter book: Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone… When I was about 8, I started to write my first “novel” – I wrote 11 chapters in the end (a side of A4 each). It involved a girl acquiring endless ponies, as I remember. I uncovered it the other day. In one chapter there are a pair of twins. One twin is lovely, humble and kind. One twin is horrid, nasty and selfish. The horrid twin is her parents’ favourite. She receives a diamond necklace and an Arabian stallion for her birthday. (Hmmm). The nice twin gets a crayon and a crust of bread….I think you’re getting the picture. (Obviously I had a great career as a misery lit author ahead of me – how on earth did I manage to miss my way?)
When I read the first Harry Potter, I was stunned at a similar cut ‘n’ dried divide between good and bad. Not only are all the “good brave” characters pretty clearly good and brave from the get-go and the sneery snide snakey ones pretty clear also, but they then go through a completely unnecessary sorting hat ceremony in order to ascertain that everyone is exactly what you thought they were in the first place. The clearly good characters get put into the house for good characters. The sneery snidey ones go…you’ve guessed it…into the sneery snidey house. Absolutely no surprises whatsoever.
Everything adds up to point to the same, simple conclusion. Good is good and bad is bad. We know who is good because the book will tell you and bang on about it incessantly and the bad characters we will know because they will be undiverted from the path of arsehole-y-ness from the very first moment we ncounter them.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticising Rowling for this –( it IS a kids’ book, so why people criticise it as though written for adults I simply don’t understand). And I am also talking about The Philosopher’s Stone only. I have read only three of the series and the third struck me as starting to mix things up a bit. So, maybe this aspect changes later in the series… (in fact, it would be wonderful if people could tell me whether that is indeed the case or not)
But Harry Potter The Philosophers Stone strikes me as having the simple straightforward morality we love and devour as young children at that age – that we don’t as under 5s where the world is more mysterious, where everything is as mad as everything else and where chaos and surreality reign. And that we don’t – or at least some of us don’t – as adults.
But, even if this is what we want as slightly older children – a clear division between right and wrong, knowing where we are, unambiguous characters we can immediately understand – it is often the books that challenge all this that stay in our minds. Why? Perhaps, because fundamentally they have more to say to us as adults so we remember them as adults.
And that’s the question I have in my mind when I return to books I have loved in the past. Do Willard’s books (which, I should add, are probably written for older children/early teens) – on the surface so sophisticated, well-written, historically interesting – have anything to say to me when I reread them as an adult? Well, apart from my going off and Wikipedia-ing “Farcy” (finding out nothing much of interest) – the answer is no, not really. The plots and issues in Willards’ novels are morally clear. The love stories are all big all-or-nothing romances beloved of teenagers (I mean, do we all find the love of our lives at 15? I hope not) and the historical stuff – although interesting – is quite romantic in a way I loved when an early teen, but does not really resonate with me as an adult reader. (They also, frankly, do not have much humour – something that strikes me about a lot of the stuff I liked to read at that age). What I loved as an early teen was some of the sagalike elements – the sense of continuity, of family. That so-and-so has such-and-such’s eyes but more of the fire and personality of whose-its-name. The sense of continuity between generations. The echoes between past and present. It is quite a romantic and comforting view of the world, even whilst Willard’s characters suffer great personal hardships and loss. But, I have to admit, that this aspect that I liked so much then – irritates me now. Which is not to criticise Willard. They are great books. Absorbing. Exciting. Interesting. Pacy. And good reads. But – for me – they are not books that speak to me as an adult.
Yet, Watership Down, another book for older children and early teens, perhaps, and a book ostensibly about rabbits on an expedition (I mean – come on!) still returns to my mind to this day. There is an episode in the book where Hazel and his group temporarily join another warren. The rabbits are gorgeous lush and healthy. They are sophisticated. They live in an amazing place and never seem to have to hunt for food…but there is a sinister mysterious air and they are elusive about certain subjects and if asked particular questions. Occasionally, one of their number vanishes, never to be seen again. The gorgeous lush rabbits have an agreement never to speak of it. And when Hazel and his companions try to get help for one of their number caught in a snare, they are shunned and silenced as their apparently civilised hosts turn their backs on them.
This sinister image affected me deeply as a child and stayed with me. As an adult it will occasionally come to my mind again in relation to the world and in relation to how people may a pact with knowledge – the idea of those rabbits with their pact with man. The choice they have made – the sacrifice of freedom, of integrity, of loyalty – for their “gilded cage”. I did not know, as a child, why the idea was so very powerful or what it was saying. But I know now. And the image and sinister horror of that warren returns to me sometimes, as powerful as any horror film.
This is a childrens’ book that speaks to me as an adult and that has stayed with me. But perhaps this is just because it’s a great book, rather than anything to do with the adult/children divide. I don’t know.
And perhaps this post is a pile of bunkum after all.
You tell me.
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Question: What books did you devour and what books have stayed with you and are they the same ones? Would love to hear your thoughts, questions or musings – however unformed or vague - in the comments.



‘And I am also talking about The Philosopher’s Stone only. I have read only three of the series and the third struck me as starting to mix things up a bit. So, maybe this aspect changes later in the series… (in fact, it would be wonderful if people could tell me whether that is indeed the case or not)’
Oh dear, you’ve pinpointed the major reason why I stopped enjoying the Potter series past book five. I agree that book one is fairly formulaic, but there are signs that the good/evil divide will be challenged later on, e.g. Snape not turning out to be the complete baddy he’s portrayed as. I thought during the first five books that Rowling was going to crack open this idea that everyone is either Gryffindor or Slytherin, and raise some interesting moral questions – vital, I think, as the books were directed towards an increasingly teenage audience, not the 8-12s. Unfortunately, although book five seemed promising, books six and seven are, if anything, even more black and white than book one! Not a thumbs up from me…
On the other hand, I think there is a lot of fiction out there, even, or perhaps especially, for the 8-12s, that moves beyond baddies and goodies and has stuck firmly in my mind, probably more so then much teenage fiction. I don’t think that, just because it’s a kid’s book, things have to be simplistic or that that is necessarily what children want. I loved the Animorphs series when I was 11, which, even if the writing is fairly basic, plays with fascinating moral issues in a sci-fi setting, and I’ve found many of them are still readable now. (Sci-fi and fantasy for this age group is perhaps particularly good at this. Islands in the Sky by Arthur C Clarke, The Lotus Caves by John Christopher and Under Plum Lake by Lionel Davidson are a trio of largely forgotten classics, even if Clarke at least is well-known otherwise, all of which I read at age 10 from my wonderful Year 5 classroom library).
Great post!
Laura – thanks so much for commenting.
“I thought during the first five books that Rowling was going to crack open this idea that everyone is either Gryffindor or Slytherin, and raise some interesting moral questions – vital, I think, as the books were directed towards an increasingly teenage audience, not the 8-12s. Unfortunately, although book five seemed promising, books six and seven are, if anything, even more black and white than book one!”
Now, that’s a shame. I thought 3 was so much better than the first 2 (which goes for the film too). I never got into HP as a series overall, but I figure I was just too old – but who knows! But I see how many children absolutely love the series so it seems to me it is certainly speaking to its readership in a big way. That simple good/bad divide seems to me to be something we quite like as children but, as we mature, we maybe want to see that complicated a bit so I assumed that they did this as they went along. So it’s interesting to hear your thoughts on that.
Any other Potter officianados have any thoughts on this?
Of course other great teen or childrens’ books like “The Hobbit” and “The Lord of the Rings” have this sort of divide too. You can tell when someone is about to be bumped off because he (and it’s always a he, isn’t it) will have some major moral failing just beforehand as though to justify it all. Although these people are not necessarily presented as “bad” people. Just people who – ermm – lapse.
A lot of epic/quest type tails even have foretellings/prophecies etc too so we know EXACTLY who is going to prevail. All very curious really. Is this to make it less scary? Or to make us look more at certain things as we go along rather than wondering what the final outcome may be?
Hmmm. More food for thought.
Hi – I really enjoyed this post, I’m still a massive fan of a lot of children’s writing even though I’m 20 no! Regarding Harry Potter, I actually felt that as the books went on they made a pretty good fist of exploring the dark and light inside everyone. Particularly in the fifth book, Harry wrestles with the darkness present within him inflamed by his connection with Voldemort. It turns out Dumbledore has some pretty sinister skeletons in his cupboard. In the last book, Ron is given the option to abandon his friends and succumb to his jealousies and deep-seated fears. Harry’s father and Sirius Black, although in the broadly “good” camp, are definitely not whiter than white as Harry discovers with trips into the Pensive. Finally, it is impossible to put Snape into a “good” or “bad” category once you are aware of his whole story. I’m a massive Harry Potter fan (in case you haven’t noticed) so maybe I’m biased. Anyways, loving this blog as ever!
Oh dear, I’ve never read Harry Potter and don’t actually intend to. Not seen the films either, I’m afraid
But I do remember Julian, Anne, George and Timmy the dog (what was the 2nd boy’s name?!?) with fondness, and always had a soft spot for Darryl (sp?) and Felicity from Malory Towers. Still remember very clearly some scenes from both.
Goodness this post has cast me back to my childhood – thanks for that, Rosy!
Does anyone else remember Ludo and The Star Horse? Great book. Ooh and Alison Uttley’s Magic in my Pocket too. Loved it – ah memories …
Anne
xxx
Littlenavyfish – thanks so much for commenting! You sound like a real Harry Potter expert so perhaps book five is the one for me and I should read it and have a see. Dumbledore certainly struck me as a very odd character…as I said I’ve only read 3 of the book and seen those films. Perhaps when my niece gets old enough for them I’ll see the rest and read the rest then.
Anne, I think the 2nd boy’s name is Dick! Ha – doubt you’d get away with that these days and maybe why it was erased from your mind. I have to say that Julian and Dick certainly blend together in my mind. They aren’t the most distinctive characters. All I remember is Anne endlessly playing house and putting the tea on whilst the rest gathered armfuls of bracken (whereever they were bracken seemed to be in plentiful supply) and George huffed about not being allowed to do boys’ stuff and went off on her own and….and smugglers. Which is quite a lot to remember I suppose but how much of that is from the Comic Strip presents brilliant parody I won’t ever quite know.
I haven’t heard of either Ludo and the Star Horse or Magic in my Pocket. I don’t think I crossed paths with either.
Talking of teen books – there was a brilliant book called Grinny by Nicholas Fisk. That has very little to do with this post, but just remembering how scary and funny that was. Maybe I should do a review of that one sometime.
I remember writing a book like that, the next one was about my pet mouse going to the Moon but ponies generally featured highly in all my stories. As far as childhood books making a mark – what about Black Beauty? Most of the books I devoured as a child or found totally magical I find unreadable now like the Wind in The Willows or forgettable – Enid Blyton and Ruby Ferguson – but some still stand out vividly, Marianne Dreams, terrifying, Alice in Wonderland which I loathed with a passion, Silver Snaffles by Primrose Cummings and Pony From Fire by one of the Pullein Thompsons I think. There was also one called She had Two Ponies which was deeply satisfying, She – rich, spoilt, – got a well deserved comeuppance.
The books which I read then and can still read now like Anne of Green Gables I only thought OK then – strange, isn’t it?
I loved this post, Rosy, though I haven’t gone back to many of the books I enjoyed as a child. Famous Five I used to think was ace (I gave my dog the middle name of Timmy – my folks had already settled on his first name, alas!) but I’ve never really gone back to FF, possibly because I fear that the magic will have vanished. One of the definite attractions of the Famous Five was the food. The picnics! The fruit cake, the pies, the boiled eggs, the cream fresh from a farm! That I could still appreciate, I’m sure.
“then go through a completely unnecessary sorting hat ceremony in order to ascertain that everyone is exactly what you thought they were in the first place.” Just a note on this scene from HP. Thinking back (waaay back), one reason I think I liked this “sorting” scene was because the book seemed to hint that Harry was going to be sorted into Slytherin, but the fact that he was thinking (Gryffindor! Gryffindor) was enough to overrule the Sorting Hat’s original decision. I liked that little nod to free will. N.B. I might have remembered that incorrectly.
annebrooke, I remember Ludo and the Star Horse by Mary Stewart vividly. I am looking for a copy for my niece when she is older. I also remember Stewart’s The Little Broomstick. Other books that have never faded are Eagle of the Ninth, by Rosemary Sutcliffe, and The Owl Service by Alan Garner, The Homeward Bounders by Diane Wynne Jones and, yes, Watership Down. The One Thousand and One nights should get a mention too.
I was just thinking about going back to read Wind in the Willows again … praps I shouldn’t.
But oh, the Jill and pony books ….. such memories ….
I think you’ve probably got a point, Rosy. Like you, I must have read hundreds of pony/animal/Secret Seven/Famous Five books and I can barely remember any of them, but the two that really stick in my mind are Belinda G Macrow’s ‘Mr Whisper’ books, which I keep mentioning on Vulpes, probably in the pathetic hope that someone, somewhere, has copies that they will either lend me or sell to me, so that I can lay my ghost …
Apart from a (very gentle) mystical/supernatural theme they were basically about a one pubescent girl’s alientation – feeling that the word around her is unfriendly, foreign and frightening – until shown otherwise by the eponymous Mr Whisper. Massive identification with central character of course …
Thanks for all the comments – it’s really terrific that people are responding to the discussion even if I was a bit all over the place in what I was saying. I would like to reread The little White Horse – did anyone else read that? I remember GOodnight Mister Tom made a deep impression as a child because it was the first time I encountered a character who died who didn’t deserve it at all in a book (I won’t say who in case there are any younger readers I might spoil it for). It was very upsetting, but the book and character stayed with me partly because of that aspect I think.
Lisa, not sure I’m with you on the sorting hat thing. I felt what was the point if there was no surprise at all? And it was a bit the same, for me, with the quidditch games – all that bother and at the end of the day it all was won or lost on one guy catching the snitch. What was the point of all the rest then? But maybe the straight-line of all this would have appealed to me as a child. That’s what I’m wondering with this post.
Moira I suspect all those pony books are a lot about fantasy-satisfaction and escapism like certain books as an adult. But because the fantasy is always sated there is not much to remember. Totally loved them at the time though and certainly needed for drudgey childhood going to school and not getting to do much that’s exciting.
Victoria – interesting point about things you were meh about as a kid and think are great now. I must have a think if there are any things like that for me. I certainly feel there were things I was meh about as a student that I got into later – I think sometimes that was about being introduced to things in the best way- and with the most interesting or necessary info. I suspect a lot of the renaissance course literature that I detested so much might be more interesting if I had been introduced to more interesting ways of looking at it. But, then again, maybe not.
I was meh about Blake, come to think of it. And now I’m writing long and involved posts for VL about him.
I’m a big Potter fan, and whatever you say about them, they have got kids reading and that can’t be bad. 3 is the highlight of the series for me in both book and film – it’s simply less voluminous than the rest and with its added darkness it hits the spot well.
The children’s books that stayed with me have tended to be great books, but with some illustrations, and I remember them through the pictures – so your argument about remembering picture books holds for these too. My ultimate fave is Marianne Dreams by Catherine Storr – which has creepy pictures of watching stones with eyes!
It’s very odd that I was notorious as a child for ‘having my head always stuck in a book, but I can hardly remember any of the masses and masses I must (therefore) have read. I was a precocious reader, and started sneakily to read adult books in my early teens. I’ve hung onto the few books I owned that really made an impression on me, and they’re a weird mixture – Noel Streatfield’s Ballet Shoes (I still read it when I need comfort) and all the books that made me laugh like a drain – Three Men In A Boat, Molesworth, Jennings, Kipling’s Just So Stories and Stalky & Co, AA Milne’s Pooh books and poetry.
I completely passed on pony and animal books – I know I’m an oddity. Oh, except for Gerald Durrell, and Gavin Maxwell (actually, they are pretty big exceptions, aren’t they!) Strangely, I read some ‘children’s’ (discuss) books when I was older – late teens and twenties – that stayed with me. One of them was Watership Down – can’t say I loved it, but I couldn’t forget it – I know just what you mean about it, Rosy. I started to rediscover other children’s books when I was working as a librarian, and learned to enjoy them for their adult appeal – I think my taste ran to those books that worked on adult and child levels, and yes, mainly picture books – The Church Mice series was a huge favourite, and Posy Simmonds’ Fred.
What I am more afraid of is reading the adult novels that made such a deep impression on me when I was a teenager. I’m afraid to re-read The Lord Of The Rings (which I devoured in one of those no sleeping, no eating reading jags that I had the stamina for when I was young). The book that keeps staring at me from my bookshelves that I REALLY dare not pick up, in case I don’t love it any more, is Laurence Durrell’s Alexandria Quartet.
Remember Ludo and the Star Horse? It still makes me cry, and I’m 33! I’ve got it, but I just hae to look at it and sart sniffling so don’t read it often. I read a lot of kids’ books, still buy them and after charity shopping all my pony books when I was a terribly grownup 14 year old, I hit 20ish, went “d’oh!!” and have been re-buying them ever since. I used to be a professional rider though, and still teach it part-time, so the pony-book thing was part of a lifelong obsession with horses, not escapism or fantasy etc for me.
Diana Wynne Jones stayed with me throughout my life, has been a major influence in my worldview and I think always will be.
The Flying Classroom by Erich Kastner was one that haunted me as a child and didn’t disappoint when I read it again as an adult. Emil and the Detectives did nothing for me then or now though.
I love the Owl Service, but the Weirdstone of Brisingamen and Moon of Gomrath seemed much thinner than I remembered when I came back to them. They both seemed like the beginnings of something bigger and meatier?
I can reread the Prydain books again and again as well, and Anne of Green Gables.